Monday, June 29, 2015

BFWTFFTW!?

Well now.

BF have done it again. First they convinced the BBC to let them do Benny stories, then stories with 5/6/7, then they managed to convince the self-described "George Lazenby of Time Lords" to return to the role. They got Daleks and Ice Warriors Cybermen and the Master, and eventually Sontarans too. They not only dragged Janet Fielding and Matthew Waterhouse back to the fold, they managed to get Tom Baker and Lalla Ward to do stories together (this is seriously so fistworthy it really is). They even briefly brought Jon Pertwee back from the dead but decided some bloke called Tim Treolar would do as a replacement.

It says so much that the only Classic Series elements that BF haven't succeeded in returning are Jackie Lane and the Movellans. Which is a story just begging to be told! Dodo's sneezes give the Movellans the clue to wiping out the Daleks, mwahahaha!

Of course, there has always been one big freaking line BF have not been able to cross and that's the new series. Everything prior to the TV movie is their domain, but of course in recent years Nick Briggs has tinkered with the boxsets of Gallifrey, Dalek Empire and Dark Eyes to rapidly plug the gap up to the opening scene of Night of the Doctor but they can't go any further, can they? OK, Joseph Lidster throws bits of the Time War into past Doctor stories and Nev Fountain committed The Kingmaker a story where not one but three Doctors were abused (being 4, 5 and 9) but apart from that...

And then we had a UNIT boxset - with Kate Stewart and Osgood.

And from this trickle has come the flood!

And then Torchwood Chronicles with John Barrowman.

Churchill's missing adventures with the Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Doctors (particulary Victory of the Daleks and A Christmas Carol).

A boxset where -
  • the Fifth Doctor meets the Weeping Angels (on audio, just think about that)
  • the Sixth Doctor versus the Judoon (could be good, given the idea is Gene Hunt as a space rhino)
  • the Seventh Doctor against the Sycorax (is anyone surprised by this pairing? Anyone?)
  • and the Eighth Doctor meets the Sontarans in the Time War (again, but this time they go "Sontar-Ha!" and presumably the Ood considered themselves too good for this)

But then... then...

RIVAH SONG MEETS THE EIGHTH DOCTOR!!!

No bullshit. This is genuinely happening.


I know! The very idea, if I suggested it to your face, would rightly get me a smack in the mouth! Does she not, on screen, make it clear the youngest Doctor she ever met was David Tennant? That she keeps photos of all Doctor faces to know which ones she could risk talking to? Even given given Eight's notorious predelicition for amnesia (he was still forgetting everything in Dark Eyes 4!) could anyone really scrub away the memories of that curly-haired harridan?!?

(Quick reminder: huge fan of Alex Kingston herself, really am)

But come on! And then we get the River Song Diaries with all those stories that Steven Moffat himself abruptly decided he couldn't be arsed to tell. The Bone Meadows, Easter Island, Bill the Fish, Singing Towers... nope, he cut to the chase and effectively killed off the character off-screen!

Still, if BF think The Android Invasion was worth an epic sequel, one line of dialogue from Moffat is good enough - but given even he didn't want to go into the pornographic details beyond such innocent phrases as "Picnic at Asguard" conjure up...

Where will it end? Will the Tenth Doctor finally meet Galanar in Dalek Empire? Can we get more Donna stories? Are there 11/Jack tales to be told? And given Eccleston said he was always willing to do DW on audio and the entire production team is different, will he prove he's actually up for it? If he doesn't, that means it'll just be another job for Nick Briggs - he's already tried it in Night of the Whisperer or something.


Anyway, BF's wholesale absorption of NuWho (and logically now only actor availability prevents them doing stories with War/9/10/10.5/11 and their respective companions) will piss off those vast majority of fans who run facebook groups saying DW died in 1989. Yes, Gabriel Chase, Kyron Mallet, Monsieur Cookson (subsitute "79") and many more can now suffer in shame and humiliation!

And, like we always said, BF would do stories with River Song before they did them with Ben Chatham...

33 comments:

Miles Reid-Lobatto said...


Dude, you're better than them. To quote Patton Oswalt, 'They're going to miss everything cool and die angry.'

Miles Reid-Lobatto said...


Although, Ron Mallet crying 'blasphemy' was kinda hilarious. Everything else was just... pathetic, really.

Youth of Australia said...

Think you just found the perfect phrase to write on his gravestone.

Matthew Blanchette said...

Of course, we will never have a Time War-era Doctor on audio, since John Hurt would never do it, the odds on Eccleston are very low, and Moffat quite stupidly (in my opinion) blocked McGann from ever doing anything with it.

I hope when Moffat heard this deal was going through, including Eight meeting River Song, the thought finally hit him that maybe the "Mayfly Doctor", much less being played by an actor who doesn't care about audios, was NOT such a good idea, after all. ("Tribute to Big Finish", my foot.)

That realization, sadly, having come three years entirely too late.

Youth of Australia said...

Of course, we will never have a Time War-era Doctor on audio, since John Hurt would never do it, the odds on Eccleston are very low, and Moffat quite stupidly (in my opinion) blocked McGann from ever doing anything with it.
I think you're being a tad negative. John Hurt might have considered it if not for health reasons - and they could recast him like they did Pertwee or Hartnell. And while Eighth says he "will not fight" he's been caught in the war since it began in To The Death. What's more, BF have stated quite bluntly they are doing an 8/Sontaran story during the Time War.

As for Eccleston... meh, recast him.

I hope when Moffat heard this deal was going through, including Eight meeting River Song, the thought finally hit him that maybe the "Mayfly Doctor", much less being played by an actor who doesn't care about audios, was NOT such a good idea, after all. ("Tribute to Big Finish", my foot.)
Big Finish found it very useful. They now have a definite end for Eight but the freedom to keep exploring his story.

Youth of Australia said...

You're assuming that
a) I lied about them
b) the authorities haven't already taken them into custody for child abuse
c) the biological family didn't dobbed them in themselves

So, now we've established that I am not going to get "sliced up" - jeez, you have no idea how we do things in Australia, do you? Watch "Stone" if you want to learn how real bikies behave - is there any reason to keep your inaccurate posts?

Now, if you want to comment about Big Finish assimilating NuWho into their continues and the repercussions thereof, then I will not delete your posts.

I mean, unlike me, you're not a freak so you should be able to behave reasonably in this context? An intelligent, well-read individual like yourself will no doubt see the merit in my argument, won't you?

Tommy said...

I know you lied about them, and that you're lying about them now. They didn't abuse anyone, did they? And they're not in custody are they? You're just making that up so I give up trying to reach them on facebook's biker groups. It's all malicious lies from you.

Same way you do about everyone to make yourself look good, and then try to weasel out of it when it gets back to you.

Youth of Australia said...

I know you lied about them, and that you're lying about them now.
Wow, did you use your magical zen powers?

They didn't abuse anyone, did they? And they're not in custody are they? You're just making that up so I give up trying to reach them on facebook's biker groups.
HAHA! Oh, seriously, that's funny. Like Queensland bikers would be on facebook. More likely off their faces on meth.

It's all malicious lies from you.
How do you know? Did I name them? The child in question? Their location? How can it be malicious if I'm not pointing the finger at anyone?

You're doing it again, twisting the facts to fit your views.

Same way you do about everyone to make yourself look good, and then try to weasel out of it when it gets back to you.
How on Earth has this made me look good? I mean, apart from the implicit "I'm not a child molester" part, I don't see anyone applauding me. Why would they?

Now, are you going to engage your brain for once and discus the topic in the post - BF with River Song - or are you going to keep trying to cyberstalk unspecified bikies in a jihad against me?

BTW, you should totally get BF's 200th - The Secret History. You'd love it. I did.

Matthew Blanchette said...

...bikers, what? :-/

Anyhow, I'm just disappointed (yes, two years on, I know...). That was a PERFECT opportunity to bring Paul McGann to attention than just a web video (which, admittedly was nice, but it wasn't the 50th), and pfffft. Blown.

I do apologize for my negativity, though. :-(

Youth of Australia said...

Don't worry about the bikers. He has no idea what he was saying.

As for PMG, he did an interview at the time about how he wasn't really up for making DW on TV and needed some persuading - indeed, it was only the regeneration scene that convinced him to do it. He said, I believe, it'll probably be 15 years before anyone convinces him to appear as the Eighth Doctor on TV again.

In fact, the original idea was a longshot regeneration at the end of Name of the Doctor, so convinced were all parties they wouldn't be able to get McGann back rather than not wanting him.

Tommy said...

Don't worry about the bikers

Ah so you mean you're admitting they were completely innocent after all of the child abuse you falsely accused them of?

Youth of Australia said...

No, I'm telling Matt it's a long complicated story not worthy of discussion.

And you just said they didn't exist in the first place!

Look, TC, there must be something else we can talk about instead? Like, I dunno, BF's latest output? Or the latest season of Game of Thrones? Gay marriage being legalized?

I mean, are you really going to be on your death bed one day saying "Oh, if only I had more time to argue on the internet!" ? You're not a bad bloke, you have high moral standards - surely you can live up to them?

Look, here's my email - ewen32@iprimus.com.au - you can contact me directly.

Can't say fairer than that, can I?

Matthew Blanchette said...

"As for PMG, he did an interview at the time about how he wasn't really up for making DW on TV and needed some persuading - indeed, it was only the regeneration scene that convinced him to do it. He said, I believe, it'll probably be 15 years before anyone convinces him to appear as the Eighth Doctor on TV again.

In fact, the original idea was a longshot regeneration at the end of Name of the Doctor, so convinced were all parties they wouldn't be able to get McGann back rather than not wanting him."


Weird. Since I'd seen several interviews with McGann from some years beforehand with him being resignedly, but demonstrably, pissed that he'd never been asked back -- the most recent one having been back when Matt Smith was cast, if I recall correctly.

If they'd given McGann the Hurt part and said, "You regenerate in this one", I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd jumped at it, however reluctant he might previously have been. THAT would've raised his profile and, yes, fostered demand for his Doctor far more than just "The Night of the Doctor" would (and did).

I am still incredibly baffled that they did not at least shoot new footage of him for the climax and include him (the ACTUAL him) in the lineup of Doctors at the end of "Day" -- the secret obviously would have been out by the time of airing, and they HAD him on set during production to shoot "Night"! I still can't believe they wasted that golden (or, if you like, silver) opportunity...

Youth of Australia said...

Since I'd seen several interviews with McGann from some years beforehand with him being resignedly, but demonstrably, pissed that he'd never been asked back
I think he was speaking about RTD rebooting the series. He wouldn't have done it (he's quite the family man, which means he'd be reluctant to move to Cardiff for most of the year - BF works around his availability when he's out of Liverpool).

If they'd given McGann the Hurt part and said, "You regenerate in this one", I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd jumped at it, however reluctant he might previously have been. THAT would've raised his profile and, yes, fostered demand for his Doctor far more than just "The Night of the Doctor" would (and did).
The original plan was for Hurt's part to be Eccleston. The first version of Name of the Doctor had the Ninth Doctor diving into the Doctor's timestream to rewrite the events of the Time War. The first draft of Day of the Doctor had Nine fighting the War (scrapped when Eccleston bluntly said he didn't want to do it).

I am still incredibly baffled that they did not at least shoot new footage of him for the climax and include him (the ACTUAL him) in the lineup of Doctors at the end of "Day" -- the secret obviously would have been out by the time of airing, and they HAD him on set during production to shoot "Night"! I still can't believe they wasted that golden (or, if you like, silver) opportunity...
The lineup was done as part of the special trailer (you know, with all the Doctors frozen in the middle of fighting monsters). They were all fans of the right height and build in costumes with CGI faces. Hurt, Tennant and Smith were added later.

PMG, for his part, was very pleased they got him the right height in the finished product as he's not much taller than McCoy and felt ridiculous having to stand on a box so he loomed over him for publicity shots.

Don't get me wrong, I too would have loved more PMG in the anniversary. But I'm not heartbroken over what we got. I personally dreaded Night would completely contradict Big Finish and decanonize the lot...

Matthew Blanchette said...

Fair enough. I wasn't worried about that -- I just really think Eight hasn't gotten as much love (or attention) as he deserves. Clearly, even outside the show, he's the "forgotten Doctor" -- and that's because so many people haven't a clue there's anything significant prior to Eccleston's series, since they see "Series 1" and assume that's where they should start, not caring otherwise.

As great as the audios are, I think we needed more than eight minutes of McGann onscreen for the 50th (although, yes, I still do love "Six minutes? That's ages!"). He seemed almost... papered over, to my view; even in the behind-the-scenes stuff, all anyone, even Matt Smith, talked about was Hurt, Hurt, Hurt, despite the fact that this would be his one and only time playing the role, not one he was coming back to. (I get that real-world contingencies got in the way, but... SURELY they had enough money in the budget to pay McGann to get over his reluctanctness?)

Youth of Australia said...

Clearly, even outside the show, he's the "forgotten Doctor" -- and that's because so many people haven't a clue there's anything significant prior to Eccleston's series, since they see "Series 1" and assume that's where they should start, not caring otherwise.
By that measure all the prior bar Tom were forgotten.

even in the behind-the-scenes stuff, all anyone, even Matt Smith, talked about was Hurt, Hurt, Hurt, despite the fact that this would be his one and only time playing the role, not one he was coming back to.
Remember, McGann's miniepisode was filmed seperately AND IN SECRET. There was no point asking Matt Smith for his opinion as they hadn't filmed together and probably didn't even know it was there. Hell, Tom Baker was utterly bewildered about if he was actually going to be in the finished program.

(I get that real-world contingencies got in the way, but... SURELY they had enough money in the budget to pay McGann to get over his reluctanctness?)
Remember, McGann doesn't consider it reluctance. He plays the Eighth Doctor all the time, so it's just a question of whether it's on TV or audio (and audio is much easier for actors). As he said in The Fivish Doctors Rebooted, it's more about availability. He's a busy actor. If Moff, for example, does write a Two Doctor story with Eight and Lucie meeting Twelve and Clara and McGann is free, he might do it. Who knows?

*taps nose*

WHO KNOWS?

Matthew Blanchette said...

One never knows, do one... :-(

Youth of Australia said...

Indeed one does not...

Matthew Blanchette said...

(That was a Fats Waller quote. :-P)

I am stil a bit peeved, personally, to be frank, that Mr. Smith quit when he did to do... the crap he's doing now. Maybe it's that piece you wrote from right when that particular announcement was made that's still sort of hanging over me; I keep coming back to it, mentally. :-(

Wonder if it really was true that he'd only ever planned for 3 seasons, as the Shannon Sullivan site now reports -- or whether that's more of a conscientious arse-cover, and we won't know the real truth until 10 or 15 years from now.

Youth of Australia said...

Well, remember Smithy was working as the Doctor from the end of 2009 to 2013 - that's five years, even if it only comes out as three series to us viewers. And as the youngest Doctor eva, he has more years to get crap out of the way - like Davo's Tomorrow People or Capaldi's Vicar of Dibley appearances.

Certainly, it seems more credible he agreed to stick around until the 50th right at the start than whatever the hell was going on with Eccleston.

Matthew Blanchette said...

But then, what was up with him mentioning Series 8 in an interview like it was a lock he was doing it? Remember that? Was that just a misunderstanding on our part, or did he decide late in the process to back out, and Moffat agreed to let him go? (Not that it sounded like Moffat really tried to persuade Smith to stay on, either; I'm sure he must've had "I've GOT to have more than one Doctor in my tenure!" lined up as a concept, already...)

Mind you, I don't hate Moffat. Not even now. Just, parts of what's been happening since 2012 has slowly been souring me, I'm afraid. :-(

Youth of Australia said...

According to the latest issue of DWM, Moffat kept trying to persuade Matt to do Season 8 and pitched the Missy arc on many a night out but Matt kept drinking him under the table. If Smithy said anything else, it was probably an attempt to keep things secret out of spite for all the journos who keep wanting to know when he'd quit...

Matthew Blanchette said...

"and pitched the Missy arc on many a night out but Matt kept drinking him under the table."

...you've lost me, there. :-/ Not sure whether you're serious, or just being facetious...

Youth of Australia said...

I quote directly from the latest DWM:

"I got nowhere near planning for series eight before Matt told me he was leaving. No, hang on, that's not true. Blimey, that's made a memory surface! I had a few scattered notions, and I think I talked Matt through them. I knew he was probably moving on, but until he confirmed it, I kept him in the loop. I probably hoped I'd lure him into staying. I think I talked about the Doctor questioning if he was a good man, and the presence of some other character (who became Missy, I suppose) who was trying to tempt him to a darker path. Oh, there's nothing harder to remember than the road not taken - which makes sense. I guess.But yes, I have some hazy memory of sitting in a restaurant with Matt, talking of good men and bad friends. It should be noted, however, that nights out with Matt tend to make for hazy memories..."

Matthew Blanchette said...

Hmmmmm... that's bizarre. Especially considering he was still working on "Time of the Doctor" before and after Comic Con 2013 -- so even if he had ideas planned for Series 8, he must've REALLY rushed the Christmas special. It certainly seemed like the announcement coming so soon was totally unplanned, at the time.

I wouldn't have wanted Smith to feel chained into staying, so to speak. But I do think he scarpered off too soon, same as Davison -- and we know Davison immediately regretted not renewing his contract upon reading his Season 21 scripts. Smith has said he'd have wanted his Doctor to become darker, HAD he stayed... but, then again, he may have just been playing to Con fans, which I wouldn't put past him, to be frank.

"Ambitious actor leaves star-making role for big dreams (that probably don't pan out": I think that's always the way it goes, don't you think?

Youth of Australia said...

Perhaps. But given Matt was a young bloke who's already gone from footballer to stage actor to TV star to movie star, it's not like he's failed on his career trajectory so far. After all, what's the point of having big dreams? As Eleven said in The Lodger:

"Well, perhaps that's you, then. Perhaps you'll just have to stay here, secure and a little bit miserable, till the day you drop. Better than trying and failing, eh?"

Matthew Blanchette said...

Well, that depends; he reportedly turned down the sure shot of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (for which he was THE frontrunner), instead doing a thankless role in a crappy Terminator sequel (which, yes, I've seen, so I can judge it) and two zombie movies (waaaay on the tail end of that trend). I really do worry for the poor fella, with these decisions.

Youth of Australia said...

Yeah, well, he's young enough to bounce back. And as we have established, he'll always have Big Finish to go back to...

Matthew Blanchette said...

True. But Doctor Who and leaving it is sort of on a different level now than when Tom Baker or Peter Davison left it, I think -- or, at least, it's seen that way. But making the jump from (relatively) genre TV to big movies is still quite the leap, and I worry he might've been moving too fast too soon and thinking his British genre cred will matter very much in American cinema.

Not that he won't rebound, but hell, I would not be surprised if (even considering he's a working actor, with that British actor-ly work ethic) it winds up jading him severely.



...but, yes, Big Finish. What're you hoping they do next with the new series? :-)

Youth of Australia said...

I'm not sure. Still, some stuff I'd like...

- 9/Jack/Rose missing adventures
- a story with Adam just to decanonize Prisoners in Time
- a 10/Rose story dealing with the loss of Jack, etc.
- a 10/Rose story dealing with the loss of Mickey, etc.
- 10 solo dealing with post-Doomsday world, the aftermath of the Cybermen invasion, maybe just missing Jack as he scoops up stuff from the remains of the tower
- Yana/Chantho/Saxon/Lucy companion chronicles
- more Donna
- more Time Lord Victorious
- origin of the Paternoster Gang
- more Craig and Sophie
- maybe something with the Silence to make sense of their retarded story arc (why do they decide to raise Melody on a planet a few years before genocide against them starts anyway?)
- how Clara got a teaching job
- more Brian Williams
- more Trenzalore

I mean, in fairness, no one has really considered this before...

Matthew Blanchette said...

A one-off or two about the Doctor on Planet Christmas might be nice, too. Just for the hell of it.

Youth of Australia said...

You mean like "Tales of Trenzalore"?

Matthew Blanchette said...

...I think I was just really tired when I typed that and missed that. Either that, or I forgot the two were synonymous. D'oh. :-S